Numbers and Narratives
Numbers and Narratives bridges the gap between the marketing/customer experience and data - come listen to marketing and CX experts talk about how to use data to better engage with your customers and provide a great experience.
Numbers and Narratives
Transforming Customer Feedback into Action - Rich Donnellan, Aro
Hey everyone! This week on Numbers and Narratives, we had an enlightening conversation with Rich Donnellan, Head of Customer Experience at Aro. Rich shared valuable insights on building a hardware-software product aimed at helping families reduce screen time and foster better relationships. Key highlights from our chat with Rich include:
- The evolution of Aro's product from a dad-focused approach to a mom-centric solution
- The importance of customer feedback in pivoting product strategy and messaging
- Strategies for scaling a hardware-based product and building a strong community
- The power of authentic brand voice in connecting with the target audience
- Balancing scalable and non-scalable approaches in customer experience
Rich emphasized the value of understanding your true customer base, the impact of tailoring messaging to resonate with your audience, and the importance of continuously adapting to customer needs. He also shared how Aro transitioned from a masculine, authoritative voice to a more empathetic, solution-oriented approach that speaks directly to moms.
This episode is packed with practical advice for startups navigating product-market fit, adapting to customer feedback, and scaling while maintaining a personal touch. Don't miss out on Rich's experience in building a product that addresses the modern challenge of screen time management in families!
Rich: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rich-donnellan-20493939/
Aro: https://goaro.com
All right, rich in the length of a tweet or a tweet thread what do we talk about today?
Speaker 2:Your earliest customers are your biggest supporters. Lean into them to find out what they value from your product and why. Because they're pulling out of it the most valuable pieces, and sometimes you have to do things that don't scale to make that happen, and I would recommend doing those things until it hurts.
Speaker 3:I'm Ibi Syed, I'm sean collins and this is numbers and narratives. All right, welcome everyone. Thank you so much. Today we've got've got Rich Dinellon from Aro. Rich, do you want to give a quick intro as to your background, what you're doing at Aro, and then we'll get right into it?
Speaker 2:So I'm currently head of customer experience at Aro. Aro is simply a screen time solution for families, so screen time is like the number one battleground in households today. We say more than sex, drugs and alcohol. It's screen time. And we take a parent-first approach to solving this problem, where parents need to be role models of how to use their phones in a healthy way, because their kids are watching and learning from that. So we're trying to give families an environment in their home to spend less time on their phones and more time with each other. I have been in software for my entire career. First job was at a healthcare IT company. Next job was at a financial technology company for about 13 years and then joined the previous founder of that business to start Auro. We launched to market about 18 months ago. Have almost 5,000 customers families around the US using our solution every day to decrease their screen time, so it's been pretty exciting, that's wildly fast to get to five thousand.
Speaker 1:I'm very impressed.
Speaker 2:I should add that the way the product is delivered is through an app, ironically, that helps you develop a healthier relationship with your phone. That says you don't need it with you all the time, so it's not blocking you from using Instagram or limiting the amount of time you use your phone. We're actually taking the approach of helping you create space, and that app pairs with a device that lives in your home, so there's a hardware component of this where we track the amount of time your phone spends in this box. Like going on a run with a Garmin watch. You get to see like how am I doing, how are other people in my family doing, how are other dads like me doing? So you talk about getting to 5,000. It's hard because we created this hardware right. Hardware is hard, so that was one of the biggest challenges in scaling. It's like you can scale an app all day long. We were building a piece of hardware that had never even been designed before, so that was a big challenge to overcome.
Speaker 3:I really like this. I'm sitting on your guys' website right now and, rich for the folks that are listening, you're also wearing a whoop. This somehow, for some reason, like the app and what I can see of the UI kind of reminds me of like it seems like you guys have a like similar to whoop. You guys have a really cool like incentive structure almost where it's like it's almost like gamifying and showing you hey, this is how much time you've like spent with your family today, right, like that's. That's. That's a really cool. I don't know. It just reminds me of of whoop in some way. It's just like whoop somehow gets me to like gamify my sleep and gamify my like. You know, I can see what the effects of my stress level have had and it like it makes me like kind of want to slow down. This kind of seems like the same thing, but for like social wellbeing almost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, you know. It's just makes you more intentional. We've talked about whoop before. I stopped drinking alcohol because of what we've told me it was doing to my body. Right, I was socially drinking, yet it was destroying my sleep, and just being able to see that and know it and quantify it and see how I could improve helps me, like what can be measured can be improved, and so we're taking the same approach. Ben Foster, the former chief product officer of Whoop, was an advisor of ours early on as we went to market launched with a subscription model. So the way Aro is delivered right now is through a monthly subscription where you get both access to the app and the box for your whole family. So we did look at Whoop a lot for inspiration. I mean, the early version of the app was dark and black and a lot of numbers and rings, just like a move.
Speaker 1:When you do talk about trying to find those first few customers. How is it different with a hardware component than when it's just kind of the app side of things, like how did that change your go to market strategy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. The biggest challenge is trying to convey the value of the app, of the ongoing subscription. When you have a piece of hardware like a Peloton bike, it's the sexy thing that everyone sees and goes like, wow, I want that. And then you have to get them over the hurdle of, well, why am I subscribing to a box? And it's not the box you're subscribing to, it's the system that's designed on the basis of motivational design and habit formation is hey, all of this stuff needs to work together to help you put your phone away. It's not just putting your phone in the box. So we all have a box. I can put my phone in a shoebox all day long, but I'm not, for some reason. And so we're trying to get over that hurdle. Another challenge is there's nothing out there like this today. So I always say like the first of the wall is the bloodiest. We didn't get to go. We're a cheaper Peloton, we're a prettier Peloton, we're a different whoop. We had to go like no, this is what this thing is, and learn the questions people had and really start to front run those Like can I buy the box on its own? What does the app do? Do my kids get access to the app. How does all this work? That took a long time and in that process, who?
Speaker 2:The market we were serving we realized was very different than the market we had gone after. Out of the gate. We I mean the business was founded by dads, first of all, and people whose kids had phones, and so we designed the experience for that, where it was families with four phones Mom, dad, two kids all have phones. Even the way the product looked we talked about the dark version of the app. It looked very masculine. And when we went to market and started having a bunch of engagement, we realized hey, moms are actually the ones in control of technology. They're the ones protecting their kids from social media dangers. They're protecting their family from making sure they're spending quality time together. As a dad, I can say dads frankly suck at that. And we also learned that it's younger families who are trying to front run what could happen when their kids are going to get phones.
Speaker 3:It's almost like You're not too far gone yet. Like to convince somebody who, like, knows the way of the world to be like, hey, like you don't have this ability anymore that you used to. Like we're going to change the way we trying to convince, like some, a teenager who has a phone that says, hey, like we're going to like try to like be more present, or something is a lot harder than just like building good habits for a young child.
Speaker 2:So that's just we learned. It's very different. It's like, hey, these parents of young kids who don't have phones yet are being super intentional about making sure they're present because their phones are pulling them away, especially as you have more people working from home. You have these blurred lines which are really hard to explain to young children, like, hey, this is me working, this is not me scrolling on Instagram. They don't really care, they just know you're looking at your phone and not them.
Speaker 2:So we had to go back and change all of our messaging to go from here's how you get your teenagers to spend less time on their phone to here's how you model healthy habits for your young kids, because they're going to get bones one day and you need to front run that and you need to be a better or more present parent. So that that was a big learning and but like a light bulb went off when that happened, it like really started making sense to people and it made it so much cleaner for us to explain yeah, it's interesting because it's it's also, you know, if you kind of think about the psychological side of of that messaging.
Speaker 1:One is sort of saying, like you're wrong, you've you've already been wrong, we're here to fix you. And one is like talking about the aspirational side of like you can be a better parent, don't you want to make a better future for your kids, which I even just saying those two versions, I just felt happier and better.
Speaker 3:That's exactly where my mind went to, where it's like you're taking the onus of hey, you need to fit. It's not you need to fix your family, it's you need to like. You need to make sure that, like, you're spending more time with your kids today, when they're young, before they like learn bad habits from you.
Speaker 1:I would say every one of my friends you know kind of in the in the two to three range now, but even the ones who are just starting to get pregnant, they're all like, well, I have no idea what I'm doing. Like I don't, I want to be a good parent, but like we're just going to figure this out and try it Like no one, no one knows what to do. So to say like hey, this is part of what being a good parent in the 21st century looks like.
Speaker 2:You're like great Show Now you hear a lot about schools banning phones, legislation restricting social media. Sure, those things are great, but it all falls apart when kids go home and they're sitting at the dinner table staring at their phone next to their parents, or they're sitting on the couch staring at their phone next to their parents. So we want to take this holistic approach of like, hey, no, it's not about taking your phone away from you, it's about teaching you how to use it as a tool, teaching you healthy habits, because we need these things. Right, like I'm on my phone, able to work in the middle of nowhere right now because of that, but that doesn't mean I need to bring it to the dinner table and let it distract me from my children. But that positive message, like you just said there, you're right Like that's what people want, it's that aspirational side.
Speaker 2:I go back to Peloton, peloton's just like here's the life you could live as this athletic, fit, healthy person and that's what people appreciate about our messaging. We hear it all the time. They like that. We're not vilifying phones and technology because it's not practical for most people, especially parents, and when we again really lean into that parent market. It has to be that way Because you got to be available when your kids are at school and something goes wrong. You got to be available and reachable by your spouse. You got to be available by your employer and all those things you just like you can't get a flip side to that.
Speaker 3:Can you talk a little bit more about how you guys made that choice? So, like oftentimes in startup world, you're told that your customers will literally pull the product out of you. Right, like you design it around, like you've kind of hinted at this a little bit. It's kind of funny I work with Sean's team a little bit on this like some of the folks that built use our product and a lot of like. One thing that we found is like a lot of the product has actually now been designed around the sort of things that they really really want to have happen. You mentioned that. You know you guys went to market. It's founded by dads. You had a pretty masculine approach. How did you? Can you walk us through the process of how you used, you know, the customer feedback? You're, you know, head of customer experience, how you took that information, how you actually came to the realization that hey, this is mostly moms, what changes you made and what benefits you saw from that change? Can you go through that a little bit? So?
Speaker 2:a couple of ways. The first would be who is engaging with our marketing channels, like social media. Ironically, for a business that's trying to get you to put your phone down is our biggest marketing channel, and it's Instagram. And, yes, instagram has a predominantly female audience, but ours is, like 90% within the age range of, like, young parents, the parents of teenagers. So we very quickly realized, like, okay, when we talk about this problem, it's women and it's moms who are gravitating towards wanting to solve. And that took some time because we came out talking at dads from dads, so they pulled that out of us Like we had to learn how to talk like a mom.
Speaker 2:The next thing was looking at, looking at our customer data and, okay, well, when someone buys and they sets up their account, we were expecting four phones to be activated and all that. Like, we designed the experience to be dynamic, where notifications happen and celebrations happen when your kids get off their phones and all that. And that wasn't happening. Our average customer had like 2.2 users, which is not a family of of four. We're like man, what's going on? Like, are they just like not setting everyone in their household up? Like, why are their kids not on this?
Speaker 2:But we didn't have enough information to necessarily know, so in onboarding we added some more information, asking about the demographics of the family. Okay, do you have kids who have phones? If so, let's get them set up. Do you have kids that have smartphones or kid phones? Do you have young kids that don't have phones yet? And so we can start to segment our customer base that way. And then we started to see like, oh wow, everyone is saying I have young kids without phones. I think it was those two things when we said like, oh man, like the product isn't designed for the people that are using it. They're gravitating towards it, so what do we need to do to change that experience for them?
Speaker 1:You know, I think the fear, whenever you use a small kind of sample like that of people that are not who you think this is built for, is then, if you change what you, what you built for this new demographic or psychographic or whatever kind of group you know, are they actually representative of the larger? Are they like an outlier? And now you repositioned and redesigned and rebuilt. Was this just like a big bet? Or did you do anything to try and kind of hedge it at all or kind of like dip your toe in the water before you went full bore, kind of what was the?
Speaker 2:phased approach to it. Another good question. So I'm not a fan of burning the ships in most cases. So I'm a fan. I'm like let's dip the toe. We said, okay, this is what we think is happening. Looking at this data, it appears that families that are using r are different than the families we designed it for. Let's go out and confirm it by actually talking to them. So you talked about product market fit. Before we subscribe to the superhuman product market fit measurement, which is, just how disappointed would you be if you could no longer use Aura? All right, so basically like that, almost like NPS. So we said, okay, let's start asking and see who's finding the most value. And then we went on like a two month blitz of customer calls. Nine and a half out of 10 people that popped up on the video screen on the other side of these customer calls were moms with young kids crawling across their lap saying my phone is preventing me from being the best parent for these people. Like they were doing calls from the carpool line.
Speaker 3:Oh, so you guys actually called customers, like. You guys got on the phone and were like, hey, like let's schedule some time to talk to each of these people.
Speaker 2:We got every person in the company account in the account. We went out and sent out emails, offered gift cards. Everyone had to write up a summary of the call with the customer and so it it just it validated what the data was telling it. So it was very clear to us. So you know, then we can say this is not a bet. The business moment, this is like the business has to do this.
Speaker 1:That's super cool that you, you know you didn't kind of like limit it to you or your founding team or you know a product market or something like that. Like in some ways, especially if it was that apparent as, like, everyone was kind of doing these calls like what an incredible way to just get company wide buy-in on the idea of like this is why we're shifting. Like, did any of you talk to somebody different? Like no, come on, this is awesome, me and my co-founder were talking about.
Speaker 3:like you know, startups makes like small pivots over time. Like and sometimes like you don't want to like make a decision. Like you have to be able to. Like you know you have to convince everyone on the boat that turning right right now is like the right decision. Like you know the driver can turn right. But then they're like, why are we going right? And it's like oh know, there's actually a waterfall over there that you can't see. We don't want to go over it. We were talking about how, a couple of weeks ago, we made a look at miners changing the strategy. We're like, hey, how do we get people on? And we like made everyone watch sales calls. We were like, hey, like this is the sales call before we made the change. And here are the sales calls, like after we made this change, and like it's just it, employees can like people at work can lose faith very, very quickly, and having everyone come to the same consensus at the same time is that's so, that's so cool that you guys did that.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, my first job healthcare IT startup. We designed kiosk software for checking in a doctor's office and verifying your insurance in real time, and it was cool because you could just sit in a lobby and watch installing these in a heart institute, watch these older people try to check in on what to them is an ATM. And we actually brought our developers to different offices and sat them in the lobby and said, just watch what they're doing. And they came back with all different solutions we wouldn't even consider, because you're able to put them in the shoes of the customer at that point, which is kind of cool about our business too. I am right, so I'm not a mom, but my wife is. We have two kids, six and three. We're like right in the sweet spot of our demographic, so I kind of get it too. It's not like I'm selling institutional financial software to someone and I'm not an institutional investor. This is for me.
Speaker 1:It's always tough. I go back and forth on which is better as a marketer to to be your target marketer, to not be Cause, when, when, when you are, I think it's easy to to assume that you are representative of everybody, and so you're like well, I wouldn't want that feature, so I'm not going to do that, or I wouldn't say it that way. And when you're not, it's like oh well, I can't be fucked, I don't, I don't know anything about moms, so like, I'll just do whatever the data is showing. But it's obviously way more fun to build a product that you want to use.
Speaker 3:So I mean dog food in your own product is so fun. Super like, super fun as well.
Speaker 2:I'd rather be my target customer than not now having been through it, cause you're right, you always have to run it through the filter of like. Okay, I'm totally biased by this for so many reasons. A lot of the decisions you have to make come down to gut and like. When you're your own customer, you have a better.
Speaker 1:gut, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3:I think Peloton was like this. I mean, peloton is a massive company, but when I was there, like I got to work on a lot of really interesting projects, like changing some of the ML, like the way that we like suggested classes to people, all that kind of fun stuff, and it was really great. When you go home and you jump on the bike yourself and you're like, oh wow, this is a change that I made, or my team made, and I actually now I'm getting better recommendations my friends are talking more about. Hey, I care a little bit more about the classes that people are taking, that kind of stuff. It's really fun to dog food your own product. I should continue on this vein for a hot sec.
Speaker 3:You you know from our last conversation are a very, very growth oriented person. You kind of have to be right, like, sales is the end all be all for a young company. Like, if you don't have, if you don't have customers, you don't have anything. You build the best product in the world. What did you see? So when you made this change you know, speaking from like you know you mentioned that you looked at the data. You guys, you know, switch. It sounds like you guys switched the UI a little bit. I can actually see that on the website. What are some like marketing changes that you made? And then, how did you like can we talk? Can you talk about, like in very rough terms, like you know, what was the increase right? Like, did you guys see like a huge sales spike? Like what is the sort of like tie up of, of kind of like, what decision did you make realizing that it was all these moms, and like, what benefits fell out?
Speaker 2:of it. One thing we did, especially because our customer base was growing pretty quickly at this point. It said we need a full-time community manager, right, like engaging with our customers, making sure they're getting in doing some unscalable things and then we can scale on the backend. We hired a customer, so her name is Paige, former customer. No way, that's cool. Call with us and Paige hops on and she walks these moms through how to get their families to spend more time with each other. Not very scalable, but we're going to do it until it hurts really, really bad.
Speaker 2:Another thing it changed our engagement on Instagram, right when we're really started talking to moms as a mom, it was different than talking to parents as a dad. So we have a post right now with 2 million views in the last week, which, for us, is crazy. We started to realize, too, moms love their little communities, whether it's Facebook groups or Bible studies or book clubs, and so we just said, all right, we got to get into these mom groups. I don't know if it had an overnight impact on sales. It had an overnight impact on usage and the reason was because we started talking to the other people like they weren't parents.
Speaker 2:So let's just talk through the flow of someone buying, a mom sees an ad on Instagram that says like hey, you can spend more time with your family and get your husband and kids and you off your phones. They go through their website, they buy, they set up the app, they invite their husband and kids to join. They get an email. That email was falling flat for a while and so we started saying, like that email we changed to say like your wife is inviting you to spend more quality time together, rather than your wife inviting you to set up your RO account. We started talking to kids like they wanted to talk to, like gamifying thing, like hey, here's how you can get your parents off their phone, here's how you can beat your parents in a family competition of spending more time away from your phone. So I guess for the post-purchase experience, it wasn't really changing how we talked to moms. It was changing how we talked to everyone else.
Speaker 3:This is that, this is. This is so cool. This is I also, like I 100 did not expect you to say that which is which is which is which is awesome. The fact that it changes the post-purchase experiences is so you guys. So you guys. Definitely it says it sounds like you guys made changes. You said earlier that instagram is your biggest sort of like app, like in, like marketing channel. So you guys changed what you guys did on instagram, but more so it sounds like you almost change your brand voice. Like going back to what we talked about at the beginning, you said, like you know, talking to people, rather than hey, like you're doing something wrong, like fix it. It's like more of like a hey, like here's. Here's how you can spend more quality time with the ones that you love, and just that changes things.
Speaker 2:We worked with a creative agency at chattanooga, tennessee, to launch the business called whiteboard everything from the aesthetics of the brand to the voice and there's like archetypes of a brand, voice and their messaging. And we were out of the gate and jester like hey, that's almost funny how addicted we are to our phones. Like let's solve the problem Right. Like kind of like sarcastically talking about it. And as we started talking to more and more families and to more and more women, that voice changed, who I call lighthearted, heartfelt, and it's it's like that positive, telling you, talking about like we're not that far away from breaking this bad habit we've all developed.
Speaker 2:And look at all the amazing things that are on the other side and that opens it up and you can go too far. You can be like, hey, imagine a world where no one had cell phones and we all talk to each other and look each other in the eyes. Like that's not practical either, but then where that makes a huge difference, like another marketing channel for us is being on podcasts, parenting podcasts. We have our own podcast, I think if you go back and look at our first 10 guests probably all guys. And so as that shifted, we said like well, we got to get more moms on here and it's hosted by our co-founder, joey, so, like another dad, yeah.
Speaker 3:So now looking back on it too, like I'm realizing all these things in the moment's sweet yeah, I mean like increased usage also just correlates with more retention, so that's like I'm sure that you guys saw some benefits there, but it sounds like almost like you guys went from uh, the, like, the.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like an authoritative voice, like a friendly, authoritative voice of like, hey, like, yeah, like imagine a world in which, like you spent more time with your family here is like all the benefits that come out of it we, early on, talked about the business and talked about ourselves like entrepreneurs who are starting a business with this product, and shifted to we are now authorities in helping families manage technology and products, because they looked at us that way, like we know more than anyone about it. It's all we do every day and when, like when you really lean into that, they appreciate it because they're coming to us, like I mentioned to you before, they're coming to us to solve this problem for them and to tell them when and how often they should be off of their phones, not just to put their phone in a box Again, anyone can do that, so we really have to continue to lean into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm looking at these podcasts and you've got like a multiple of the I wish my husband knew how or how important and that's like a really interesting angle, like yeah, okay, like that is going to. I'm probably going to go listen to that after this episode, after we finish recording this, to see what I'm supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2:They're great ones to share with your wife too. They're meant to be thought provoking conversations.
Speaker 3:I like the approach that you guys are using. This is, this is I mean, I don't have children, I'm not married yet, getting married next year, but my, my, like my phone rules my life, which is like I kind of tell my friends that, like when our company exits at some point, if we get to be that lucky, the first thing I'm going to do is just like I'm going to go to a flip phone. Like Slack goes off all the time, Like I never like between text messages and emails. It's just, it's just too much. I feel like the people that should be able to actually reach me at any time I can probably count on like one or two hands and the rest of everyone I can like get back to at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:We are way less important than we think when we like, when it comes down to it 5,000 is no small number, as you think about quadrupling over the next number of years.
Speaker 1:how do you think you do maintain that community and that personalization and that you know you talked about? You're going to keep doing the non-scalable till it hurts, but like what happens after that? And how does something, a brand like you, think about? You know you've said a few times where, like ironically, instagram is so powerful for us, for us, but how do you think about ai? Or you know, do you, do you solve this problem with scaling the team? Or how do you kind of continue?
Speaker 2:to build the brand you've built, I think, how we scale product wise? First of all, it's like we're restricted right now to the hardware that we can develop. Right like this thing lives in your home. You put your phone in it. One of the features we've launched is actually straight through the app, where the app tracks the amount of time you're not touching your phone. So, again, not like blocking you from using Instagram. We're trying to get you to create space, so you put your phone down and it's like counting the time that you don't use your phone. You don't want to. I call it the invisible box, like you don't want to break that street phone away. So, from a product perspective, just being able to offer a solution that works without the hardware, let's just scale overnight. 58% of our usage since we've launched this feature is through the app only, not just the box anymore, so it's been very widely adopted. Then that does things like allows us to go international, because we're limited by where we can ship today, so we're only in the US.
Speaker 2:And when you talk about the community, the hardest, one of the things we struggle with is getting distracted by how big the market is. Right here, right, like it's people with phones, right, and then like, let's just say, like 99% of those people are actually addicted to them in some form or fashion. Our sweet spot where a message resonates, where we know where the problem is most felt, is within families, and so you can narrow it a bit. The good thing is, families are perpetual, like birth and death, like there's always going to be families. I don't know if I have an answer for how we scale within that right now, like, yeah, some of it's going to be people, especially if we continue on the hardware side. Right, we're making these things. We're doing it in the US now. We can always go international, but who knows?
Speaker 2:There's so many inorganic ways to grow through partnerships and other people doing the same thing, whether it's partnering with hardware businesses, brands. There's so many people getting behind this movement right now of taking a step back and learning how to use our phones in a different way. It could be schools. Maybe there's a different way for schools to get kids off their phones rather than locking them in a pouch. It could be enterprises. There's two ways, two opportunities I think we see there. One is employee wellness. I go back to Peloton all day long, but like that was an employee wellness benefit at NASDAQ. It's like, hey, we're going to cover your Peloton app subscription, same thing here. Or just like productivity wise, if the product ships a bit like your phone's getting in the way of work, I'm pretty sure like in some way, so can we make people more productive? So I know, I'm just kind of explaining the size of the opportunity there, but, like I just I don't necessarily have the answer yet for how we scale to get there yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:So many this is.
Speaker 3:This has been, has been great. This has been actually, I think, one of my favorites so far, reason being we kind of like told the story of a pretty concise narrative but through like a bunch of smaller stories which I absolutely loved. Before we finish, do you have anything that you want to pub Like? Where can I, where can our listeners, you know, find more of your writing? Where can they find Aro? Give us anything that you want to sort of publicize on this before we end.
Speaker 2:So you can find out more about Aro on our website, goarocom G-O-A-R-O or on Instagram at goaronow. And, as of two days ago, you can now go download the app and do a week free trial with your family to see how it works for you. So just go to the app store, search RO on Apple or Google and check it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll put that in the show notes. Thank you so, so much. Really really appreciate you coming on.