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Numbers and Narratives
Numbers and Narratives bridges the gap between the marketing/customer experience and data - come listen to marketing and CX experts talk about how to use data to better engage with your customers and provide a great experience.
Numbers and Narratives
Everything Gets Ruined by Marketers - Ibby and Sean
In this episode of Numbers and Narratives, Ibby and Sean engage in a candid discussion about the changing landscape of B2B marketing, particularly focusing on the decline of cold email outreach and the rise of AI-powered marketing tools. They explore alternative strategies for building meaningful connections with potential clients and share insights on leveraging AI effectively in marketing efforts.
Key takeaways from the discussion:
- Cold email effectiveness declining
- AI-powered SDRs flooding inboxes
- Value of genuine, personal connections
- Using AI for intelligent lead engagement
- Importance of providing value upfront
The hosts emphasize the need for marketers to shift away from disruptive tactics and focus on building authentic relationships. They discuss innovative approaches to using AI, not for mass outreach, but for identifying relevant conversations and opportunities to engage meaningfully. The conversation highlights the enduring importance of inbound marketing strategies and the power of founder branding in establishing credibility.
Hi Sean, it is just us on today's podcast. We have no guest because of guest timing issues, but you know this is a great conversation and, in the spirit of that, can you tell us in the length of a tweet or a tweet thread what we talked about today?
Speaker 2:Architeurs may Uenray everything.
Speaker 1:Oh man, yeah, yeah, that is exactly what we talked about, and anyone who gets that reference, if you email me, the sponsors of this podcast will send you a $50 gift card. Enjoy the episode, everyone. I'm Ibi Syed.
Speaker 2:I'm Sean Collins.
Speaker 1:And this is Numbers and Narratives. Sean and I just finished talking about something that happened in my company, some of the things that we're building out. So one thesis and Sean correct me I mean, you're the expert on growth, but correct me if I'm wrong One of the sort of theses that we have, and some of the things that I've seen at Cotera, is that cold email, at least in the B2B realm, is dying, like this idea that you can spam a bunch of people with you know emails. I think Google and Sean you can probably talk a little bit I'm putting on the spot here. You can talk a little bit more technically about what actually happened, but Google and Yahoo introduced a bunch of advanced rules earlier this year, slash in the late half of 2023. That sort of stopped people from being able to spam as easily as they were able to. I don't actually know the specifics of what it was. I just know that my cold outbound died.
Speaker 2:The details on exactly what I think are less important. The bottom line is that outbound messages have changed a substantial amount with the advent of AI, sdrs and Gen AI tools and there's just now so many AI powered apps saying that they will get you 3x the leads and improve your close rate, and stuff like that, and generally, what that means is just more junk mail being sent and it's more generic and it's latching onto stupid trends that don't actually really matter To me. It's less about like cold emails dead, because I do think that you know there's still a place for cold email. There's still a place for cold LinkedIn DMs and Twitter DMs and all that. The number of shots on goal. To go back to the Aiden conversation right Now, it went from every day you receive 10 pieces of junk mail or cold outreach that you don't really want to receive, to now I'm getting 30 to 40 a day and I'm getting 10 phone calls a day on my personal cell, and so it's just the hit rate of those is going to go way, way down.
Speaker 2:I do think there are penalties now that Google and Yahoo are putting in place to put you in the spam filter and shut down your domains and stuff like that. So you have to change some tactics and there's white hat and black hat ways to do that. But the bottom line is just cold outreach, which is already a low conversion percentage, is going to become a lower conversion percentage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think one of the things that I've seen, at least anecdotally, is I'm in a couple founder group chats Everyone is constantly talking about hey, a lot of these people are folks like me who used to be engineers or used to be in a technical position that are now have now been put in this place where they have to grow sales for their company, Like I am a really good example of this, right, Like I used to be a data scientist. I run a data data product company, but what I spend a lot of my time doing is talking to people selling a product. I am not good at sales by any state, by any sense of the word. Please, If there's an investor listening to this, that was a complete lie. I'm great at sales.
Speaker 2:My company is so good at sales. First of all, he sold me cold outreach. Oh yeah, that's fair, Got me to start a podcast. I mean like well, this guy's a sales machine.
Speaker 1:A huge sales machine. One of the things that we constantly talk about is AI. The thing that comes up is AI, SDR, so there's a ton of these companies that have come out. Like 11X is a really good example of this. Like I can't I don't exactly remember, but their numbers were sort of bananas high. They like they got to like a million dollars of revenue really fast and I'm pretty sure they like went to $2 million like the next day or something. Like it was crazy and I don't know how that company is doing now. Know how that company is doing now.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that we constantly hear is that, like, folks are signing on to these AISDR companies. Aisdr, they would do the research for you. They would add, like a personalized bit in the email, which is something that, like previously signaled that, hey, you've done your research right. Like you have looked me up, you have taken the time to understand something about me, which is something that is, you know. That is advice given to people that are doing SDRing for the first time, which is like, hey, take the time to know your customer, figure out why they think your product might be useful, to figure out why your product might be useful to them. You know, if you have something in connection with them, you know, put that in the email. But because now and ChachiBT can like put those sentences in makes it a lot easier for people to just like spam, personalize, make it seem personalized, but it's spam. And so what's happening is people are now starting to be able to understand which messages are being personalized through chat.
Speaker 1:Gpt Sean, I'm curious about this, Cause, like I get a lot of these messages all the time and it just very much seems like something where, like it just says it in such a weird way, Right, Like I can try to find one while we're on, while we're on this chat. But, oh yeah, somebody was like, somebody messed, somebody knew that I like grew up in Omaha and so they were like hey, like have you ever been to the Omaha Henry the early zoo? It I know it is ranked very, very highly in the in the world, curious as to how your zoo experience was. And I'm just like, wait, this is so fake. Like, even if you take the time, I'm glad that somebody took the time to find me in Omaha, but the fact that I was from Omaha, but like you wouldn't say something like that You'd be like, oh, by the way, like know that the zoo is really, really cool, I've always wanted to go, or something like that.
Speaker 1:That's the real human way of saying it, human way of saying it. The way these AI things work, it's just, it's bad. Anyway, long story short. Aisdr is, I think, our further sort of I don't know, I don't want to be doomsday here, but further killing cold outbound because people are just, you know, learning to not respond to those emails.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it sucks right. I've been actually doing a lot of like manual cold outbound because I don't like the AI tool and also, you know, my side project is super early. We're looking for first couple brands to work with, and so I do want to be very deliberate about who we're working with. Or I want to, you know, try and demonstrate value right up front, and it's certainly possible. I'm just a terrible writer, but I think it's largely I think it's probably that and you know, people just becoming super, super numb to, to cold outreach, and so you have to figure out a way to provide more value. And that's where I think all signs point more towards a rethinking about inbound and a rethinking about establishing top of funnel and what that really means for for a marketing team and how you think about the go-to-market function really being a long-term play very, very much focused on brand establishment.
Speaker 1:I like that and that's kind of the approach that we're taking at Cotera too. We kind of saw the writing on the wall at the beginning of this year on the cold outbound stuff and we were kind of forced to pivot a little bit. We were growing pretty consistently and then we had a couple months of fairly mediocre conversations with folks and so we kind of switched our thoughts and I'm going to offer maybe a light in the dark on some of this. One of the things that we're doing is I think that people are using AI in the wrong way, right. I think that instead of using AI to mass spam people, there are actually pretty interesting ways that you can use it in, you know, a pretty smart capacity. So I'll give you an example Like, one of the things that you know we want to be able to do is I have a lot of LinkedIn connections for people that I think are leads for our company, and we build you know what Cotera does amongst many, many things, and we build you know what Cotera does. One of, amongst many, many things is we build you know machine learning models to sit on top of data and, you know, automate some things. So one of those things is customer experience right, like we can sit on top of customer experience tickets and we can tell a head of legal when somebody you know suggests in a service ticket that they've been hurt by the product. Or we can tell the head figure out, hey, notify us.
Speaker 1:Having a person go through and read everyone's LinkedIn post to see what's going on and try to interact with it. What we do is we actually take a, we actually remove, we use AI to remove the time that it requires. So what this service does? We use Cotero to do this. It pulls a bunch of data from LinkedIn, from our leads pages. So it'll go to our leads page, it'll visit it, it'll look at the most recent post, if you know they've posted recently. It will then feed it to our AI and say hey, like you know you can do this with chat GBT. You can say hey, like is what are the topics that come from this?
Speaker 1:If one of those topics is risk detection or CX analysis or figuring out customer pain points, it will message us in Slack being like hey, here is one of your leads. They are actively online talking about something. Go join in the conversation. So, rather than having an AI respond to them and be like great job, this was a great post. And making it seem fake or automating an email. What it does is it notifies us at the right time to say, hey, there's a conversation happening on the internet about this, go join it. That, I think, is a little bit a way of sort of scaling the human side of it, rather than just replacing the human side of it with AI and ruining kind of the online conversational experience, Because people can, I think, tell when they're talking to a bot.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's nice for a lot of reasons. One, congratulations and good job, baby. That's great, we're proud of you. But seriously, that is very cool.
Speaker 2:I think what's cool about that right is like there's an old adage of like meet your customer where they are right, and like. That's supposed to mean pick the right channel, bring the right tone, bring the right messaging, all that. But I think there's a literal side to that too. And so if you think back kind of through the last 20 years 15 years, right, like you'd be like, ok, find the Facebook group where your target customer is, join that Facebook group and start talking with everyone there. And then you know, everyone started hating Facebook and people got wise to that. So then it became join, find the subreddit, and then it became join the Slack. And every single time I say this, recognizing I also am a marketer.
Speaker 2:But every time someone builds something cool, marketers ruin it. Right, like search engines were great and then marketers came up with SEO and Google search got completely ruined because you had stupid listicles and stupid blogs that had no original thought, but they copied and pasted and referenced other things and they got backlinks and they did all the right thing and so they ranked high and so you got. Every fucking thing on the SERP was the same stupid quotes and the same stats that were probably done by some lazy research method. So search got ruined and everyone used to love spending time on Facebook and Instagram, but then ads came in and now? So then everyone was like, get me to a place where it was not ads. Then they went to TikTok, and then now they're monetizing that better, and now there's affiliates everywhere, and so TikTok sucks, and so every nice thing gets ruined by marketers.
Speaker 1:That should be the title of this. Every nice thing is ruined by marketers.
Speaker 2:But you're doing that, but doing it in a thoughtful way, right? You're not going in and saying, hey, I'm going to just go push my solution and my software into this community and, like anytime someone asks a question, even tangentially near a thing that my product can do, say, like you should try my product. Uh, you, you listened for things, for the problems, for the solutions, for the words, for the right time and place where this conversation is happening, and you provide real value. And I think that's the key distinguisher, right, like? It's one thing to just say, like, try my product, we can do this. It's another to say, actually, here's my perspective, or have you tried doing this?
Speaker 2:You know, I think I think that, like Ahrefs does a phenomenal job in their blog of not just pointing at Ahrefs as the solution but saying here's a way you could do it and here's the way you can do it with Ahrefs. Hotjar used to do that, you know, and that's kind of what you're doing. You're saying like, listen, like, maybe it's my tool as a solution, maybe there's another way. You just said you can do all this with Cotera. You also just said you could do this with ChatGPT. You weren't saying you have to subscribe. Here's a perspective of someone who does this all the time.
Speaker 1:I feel like the people that just push, they'll respond with use my product to do X. They're kind of missing the point. I think, if for as long as you can, you really should try building personal relationships with people, because you get so much more value out of that than just the business transaction.
Speaker 1:Side of it, and I understand that there are a lot of people out there that are a level of scale where they may not be able to do this. This is very much like a point in time where we are, but I would much rather join a conversation, not say anything about the product that I sell, and establish myself as the person where they want to follow up afterward, right Like if somebody says, hey, like, how do I do you know inbound at scale, how are people doing it, rather than saying, oh, I use Cotero, which is wholly unhelpful. What I could say is, hey, like, you know, I do. I have a process where we take a bunch of data from LinkedIn and feed it through AI and we have it rank which conversations we should be a part of. By the way, that's how I'm part of this conversation and I want them to then follow up and say I want them to follow up and I want them to DM me and say, by the way, this is actually kind of interesting, how did this happen?
Speaker 1:A good example is I did a little I like doing like AI powered research on LinkedIn, and so one of the things we did recently was we did research on the Kamala versus Trump debate, which was a hilarious debate, by the way. I'm not going to get too political on this podcast, but one thing I did was I had our AI look at the conversation that was going on on the conservative subreddits and on the liberal subreddits and I had it basically like pseudo poll, each comment seeing if one they were talking about their respective candidates Are the conservatives talking about Donald Trump, are the liberals talking about Kamala Harris? And did they think that their candidate did well at the debate? And slightly more liberals thought that their candidate did well than the conservatives, which do with that what you will. It doesn't matter what the outcome was, but we posted about it and some guy saw it and he goes hey, this is actually kind of cool, how did you do this? And he was really interested in the way we had done the pseudo polling and he was like I work for a survey company. This is kind of interesting, this is kind of cool. And we kind of became friends. I don't actually know if they're going to ever become a Cotera customer because I think it's kind of like an orthogonal use case. Now we're friends and we're meeting up at a conference next week and let's see where that goes.
Speaker 1:By the way, if you're listening to this, I'm not going to name your name, but you know that was. That was exciting. That was kind of the point of why I put that content out there. I want people to engage with it. I want people to have conversations. I want to meet people. I want to develop good relationships. Like Sean, you're in my relationship Like we didn't end up working with built for quite a number of months, I think after we started chatting. I think it was a couple of months. You know, we just kind of talked about data and we talked about a couple of other things. Now we do this podcast and I think figuring out a way of building genuine relationships and having maybe a system to cut through the noise is a great way of thinking about it.
Speaker 2:So I don't know what orthogonal means. I'm going to assume it's disrespect. No, so watch yourself first of all. Yeah, no, I I agree. I mean, I think this really reminds me about of of like when hubspot first kind of came out with with like inbound right. I think part of the reason that inbound really took off the way that it did is that there's something that is like genuinely just like resonates to the core of us. Of like.
Speaker 2:We all agree that disruptive marketing is obnoxious and we've all been victim to that. We all like the idea of connecting and providing value and being seen as experts, and I think that this is just an extension of that right Like. Hey, we don't really know what's going to happen with search, how much it's going to be taken over by AI and AI search engines and stuff like that. Largely, seo sucks. Now there's still plenty of ways to get inbound. Don't get me wrong. Seo is still important. Inbound traffic is crazy valuable, but it's just, it's a slog and the way you do it has changed because of so many sites that just dominate search. But this is a way to get back to that right Like. Just provide real value, make real connections. Again, these are this is like a rule of thumb, but if you, if you suppose that only 5% of a given market is actively searching for a solution at any one problem or every one point, right, like, only like. 5% of your potential buyers are actively in a buying cycle at any one time, this is just saying hey, instead of spending all your time trying to figure out which of the 100% is in that 5%, it's just provide value to all of them and when it's time for them to buy, they will already have a positive affinity towards your brand. They'll already know who you are as a sales leader or a CEO or a product person. They'll know your thoughts. They'll have been engaging with your top content.
Speaker 2:There's the psychological side, like the mere exposure effect. The more time you see someone interact with someone, spend with someone, the more positively you perceive them. The more time that you aren't hawking your product but you're actually providing real value and showing hey, I'm an expert in this the more credibility you have in the market, right? That's why I think that the founder brand is becoming a bigger thing, right? Like Dave Gerhardt's book. Founder Brand oh yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:I think that that's all comes back to the idea of like as we move away from markets that are dominated by a few massive companies where they have the credit, like Salesforce had the credibility because it was Salesforce. You don't. You know Oracle, microsoft, all these big companies. They have the credibility because they are who they are, as you, if you're a startup, if you're earlier, if you're smaller, as we go to a world where there are tons more competitors in a space and it's not being dominated, it's these little bit of credibility and expertise that you can demonstrate that matters, and so it's like finding octagonal use cases.
Speaker 2:It's finding those use cases in an octagon and it's, you know, figuring out how you can get them into the hands of people right, like free trials, freemium, the idea of a virtual demo that you can do yourself, or self-guided demo, instead of it being like hey, come to my site, fill out a form, wait for a salesperson to potentially follow up with you, then have a demo that doesn't actually solve anything because you have a salesperson walking you through it instead of someone who actually does the job and you can't really get to your use case. You're just seeing generic use cases that don't really appeal to you and your product. It's like this is just so much better. Just make it easy for people. I'll come to you when I'm ready to give you money. If your product is actually going to solve my problem, I will happily give you the money for money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is 100% what. I believe there's a really interesting kind of and I'll try to link it when this podcast comes out if I remember, but there's a gentleman named Guillaume Caban I believe I'm pronouncing that correct. He goes by G on the internet. He's actually so. You mentioned Dave Gerhardt. He was also on the team at Drift. He's super, super nice. He runs this platform called Hyper Growth Partners. Oh, he was also on the team at Drift. He's super, super nice. He runs this platform called Hyper Growth Partners. Oh, he was the CMO at Ramp. He's the CMO at Ramp right now, but he worked for Reddit, airbyte, gorgeous, a lot of the companies in this space and one of the things.
Speaker 1:He has a really, really good podcast where he talks pretty at length about what metrics you see when you actually have some sort of value that you give to people when you're doing the outreach. And I don't know the numbers off the top of my head I can probably look them up and post them somewhere. Make them up. Oh, yeah, that's what we data scientists do. We just make up numbers. That's what we data scientists do. We just make up numbers. One of the basically one of the numbers was it was like there was like a 10x growth over, like cold outbound versus, uh, providing some value for a customer. Like one of the things that we try to do is, you know, when we reach out to somebody cold you know, we say, hey, like we've done some research on your brand around your competitors, here you go. Here's a link to the website where you can click into it. By the way, we do this at scale on your products, that kind of messaging where you're actually giving them something, quote, unquote, for free. It kind of goes exactly to what you said, sean. It has a much, much, much higher percentage of conversion.
Speaker 1:The problem with those sorts of tools was they're actually quite hard to build right, like taking your engineers time and having them focus not on the core product but focus on, you know, supporting marketing, supporting sales. One, it's not what a lot of engineers want to do and two, it's quite expensive. Like you're paying these people $200,000, like it becomes like sales and marketing spend but it's shown time and time again to pretty significantly increase sort of the conversion rate from one stage to the next. Actually providing value actually like kind of putting your money where your mouth is. It takes a little bit more time.
Speaker 1:And I think one thing that's going to end up happening and at least what we're seeing at Cotera is it's pretty like AI actually changes the game on this a little bit, because it just makes it a lot easier to create these one-off applications to test out a use case, right, like, rather than having one person even work on it for 10 days, you can have one person work on it for one day, because a lot of the code is kind of reusable. You don't have to write it in a super clean way because it might just get thrown away. You can kind of use that engineer's time and get some leverage on it using AI and kind of launch and you know, launch and test these experiments pretty quickly. But it actually what it does is it provides value for people.
Speaker 2:There's so many tools that have been around for a long time that take like a freemium approach, but they remove the traditional steps even to get the free side right. Like generally you think about freemium, you still like create an account, you can pick free, maybe there's a trial, whatever but like you still have to go through the process of creating an account. But there's great tools like SEO site checkup, easy gift remove, bg right. Like these are just like three tools you can use and there's just some sort of limit to it. Or there's some sort of whether it's amount of times you can use the tool in a given time, whether it's the number of features that they actually expose, and so you're really only getting like a 15% of the whole product but you're getting real value from it.
Speaker 2:Like when I used to do SEO work, like the first part of my, my process when I was kicking off, is I would just run it through SEO site check up for free, get a report and be like hey, yeah, like this is probably worth your time. Like I'm not even going to do a full, a full audit, I'm just going to give you the scorecard and say like this is stuff you can take care of you, don't need me, or uh yeah, we should probably have a conversation. I think that that's such a great way to do it, just like slice off a piece of your product.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred percent. Should we call it there? Anything you want to add?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I think it's time that we start pretending we have sponsors. So who do you think we should pretend sponsored this episode?
Speaker 1:Oh, I like this. I like this a lot. Okay, wait, I think that the person that we should have pretend sponsor this episode is your favorite free tool. You said SEO page checker, okay, so I really like this one. This is really boring, but one of the ones that I really like is there's this website where I have to do sort of random like multi-line text edit fairly frequently. Like I have to add like a pattern to multiple lines of the same text that you can't just do in like a code tool pretty easily, like you have to add like a comma to every third word, to every third letter, and like a dash between the second to last letter. And there's this website called like. That's the one, that's the one I like, but maybe you can come up with something better.
Speaker 2:Do you have one? That's well, that inspired me. I want to see if there's like a pig Latin translator. Let's, this episode is not brought to you by Lingo Jam. Lingojamcom slash pig Latin translator for all your pig Latin translation needs.
Speaker 1:I love it. This episode is not sponsored by Lingo Jam, okay, well, another thing that we can. Another thing that I wanted to ask, another kind of shout out that I wanted to give I'm getting married next year. Woo, I still need to send you your save the date shot. I'm very, very behind on everything.
Speaker 1:I've been using this company called Joy to be able to do it, and Joy for any of you who are out there getting married, I highly, highly, highly recommend it. I'm going to try to get somebody from there on this podcast soon. But one of the features I really like is they have this concierge service, that there are a lot of annoying, mundane tasks about getting married, like calling hotels to try to set up and negotiate rates for hotel blocks, and they just kind of have a couple of experts in-house that do it and they will do it for you for free, like it took me like 30, 40, 50 minutes to set up a website with them and it's awesome. So I love that product. I think the acquired guys do this, by the way, they like talk about their favorite book at the end of every episode that they've read recently and they talk about, like kind of like their favorite app or favorite product Interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm a literate so we can't do books, but I can make jokes about companies. No, but that was actually a really good example to tie it back. Man, like the thing you give for free, whether it's for lead gen or for just surprise and delight, right, Like, how many times have we tried to talk about scaling surprise and delight on this podcast? They have an inordinate amount of exposure, expertise and connections to solve these problems, and it's a repeatable set of problems that people are going through. In the wedding case, you know, hopefully you're only going through it once in your life, maybe a couple of times, but you shouldn't be an expert at planning weddings If you aren't in the wedding planning business. That would be kind of weird. And so, yeah, hopefully not a couple of times, but it happens, you know. And so to be able to lean into that expertise and provide extra value, how much does that really cost them? But, but it's got you talking about it. You posted about it on LinkedIn. They're going to come on the podcast. How many more good reviews do they get by that small little bit of extra?
Speaker 2:I think that's the perfect example of how to scale surprise and delight, how to take a piece of your product and just turn that into some expertise, right? Like you serve a lot of marketing teams and CX team, you actually see more diverse problems and approaches to marketing and CX than most marketers and CX people do, because they see it for the company that they're at at that point in time, whereas you're seeing it for every client you have, and so you have an opportunity to provide insight to how other brands are solving similar problems. And so, if you think about it that way, again it's the same idea, right. It's like take some expertise, deliver real value. Don't try and make it a gimmick, just actually provide value and it'll all come back.
Speaker 1:It always comes back. Yeah, and that's 100% right. Another good person that does, another good company that does. We had Jeff Sanders on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. But Firstleaf is a really good example of this.
Speaker 1:They have a machine learning model that suggests wines to them. But then they also have a team. They have a wine concierge team at Firstleaf that looks through every single review and whenever somebody suggests that they didn't have a great experience, they will say, hey, our machine learning model didn't suggest the right wines to you, or whatever. Let us put you in touch with an actual wine concierge who understands wine I mean, I don't know anything about wine, but they seem to and that person will do a much better job of curating your next box for you. And one of the things that that's actually super, super valuable One. You not only understand what's you don't, only get, like the benefit of, you know, probably enjoying your next box a little bit more, but you also, you know, get that feeling where, hey, this brand actually cares about me, like they care about my business, they're working hard on it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, no, big shout out to a lot of those companies. They do a great job.
Speaker 2:Hey, ibby's going to put those in the show notes this week. I will put those in the show notes this week. The other thing we don't do that we should do, besides having fake sponsors, is we don't ask you to like the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast. Please do that. That would be very, very helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other thing is, my email is ibby at numbersandnarrativesco. Sean is Sean at numbersandnarratives, is it? It's com? It's com, com. We have the com. Sorry, that's embarrassing. Ibby at numbersandnarrativescom and Sean at numbersandnarrativescom. Send us an email One if you want to suggest people to come onto the show if we mess something up, if you want to correct us, if you want to yell and scream at us, feel free, don't message Sean that. Message me that, because I'm the one who volunteered us. But yeah, we would love your feedback, we'd love to hear what you think and if you have somebody to nominate to come on the show as a guest, please, please, please, let us know.
Speaker 2:If you're going to email me, make sure you put your text through lingojamcom. Slash pig lap.
Speaker 1:We will give a shout out on this podcast to anyone who comes on and puts it through link. Thanks everyone, Sean, any parting words?
Speaker 2:No, go Bills Bye.